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Dubtes... en llengua valenciana, clar.

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Resultados 1 al 12 de 12
Like Tree18Me gusta.
  • 2 Post By POPEPO
  • 1 Post By volderk
  • 1 Post By llunablava
  • 2 Post By aguila_roja
  • 1 Post By ariant
  • 1 Post By RomagueraGAV71
  • 1 Post By Fayostros
  • 3 Post By Lobivalentian
  • 3 Post By adlerta
  • 3 Post By DonChusep

Tema: Dubtes... en llengua valenciana, clar.

  1. #1
    Senyor de lo Regne Avatar de POPEPO
    Fecha de ingreso
    01 ene, 05
    Ubicación
    VALENCIA
    Mensajes
    4,371

    Dubtes... en llengua valenciana, clar.

    Hola a tots, tinc tres dubtes.

    El primer és, a lo que en espanyol diem "pajar", ¿cóm correspondria en valencià? ¿Pot ser palliça?

    Després, en la frase (per eixemple): ni siquiera se dignó a presentarse en su casa, ¿cóm seria més correcte traduir el "ni siquiera"?
    Yo crec que seria: ni tan sevol. ¿Estaria be?

    I per últim, en espanyol, la següent frase és vàlida: "si no lo hiciéramos nosotros, habría cosas que no se transportarían..."
    Pero si tirem a traduirla al valencià, se trobem en que "hauria" queda un poquet raro, ya que, "coses" està en plural.
    ¿És correcta l´opció "hauria" en singular? Per a mi queda millor en plural "haurien" per la concordança pero una cosa és lo que a u li sone millor i, atra, lo correcte.

    Un fort abràç a tots.

    __________________________________________
    71
    Fayostros y a DonChusep Les gusta esto

  2. #2
    Sargent Centenar Avatar de volderk
    Fecha de ingreso
    04 dic, 06
    Ubicación
    exCabanyaler
    Mensajes
    1,235
    Conteste en el meu valencià "de poble":

    - Pallar
    - Esta no la tinc clara, yo diria "ni va ser per a presentarse en sa casa"
    - si no heu feren mosatros, n'haurien coses que no es transportarien

    A vore qué diuen els entesos.
    POPEPO Le gusta esto.

  3. #3
    Prior de lo Regne Avatar de llunablava
    Fecha de ingreso
    16 sep, 08
    Mensajes
    3,517
    1.- Segons tinc entés per a "pajar", palliça, com dius seria en valencià, encara que "paller" també ho he escoltat. Suponc que qualsevol de les dos.
    2.- Yo diria "Ni tan sols se dignà...". Lo de "tansevol" no sé si està be perque yo no gaste eixa expressió.
    3.- En quan a l'última yo crec que és en plural també.

    Al 100% no estic segur de cap aixina que, com diu volderk, a vore qué diuen.
    POPEPO Le gusta esto.
    NO PASSARAN!

    El fascisme vol conquistar Valéncia,

    i Valéncia serà la tomba del fascisme!


    LLUITA I ESTUDIA PEL VALENCIANISME!!

    ACÍ NO ES RENDIX NINGÚ!!!

    --->VISITA EL MEU BLOG EN LLENGUA VALENCIANA<---

  4. #4
    Centenar de la Ploma Avatar de aguila_roja
    Fecha de ingreso
    16 sep, 11
    Mensajes
    984
    Pera el cast. "Ni siquiera", tenim tambe el val. "ni sixquera/ni sisquera"
    El "ni tan sols.." vendria a ser el cast. "ni tan solo....".
    Es una opinió.
    POPEPO y a adlerta Les gusta esto
    Qui No Vullga Pols .......Que No Vaja a l'Era

  5. #5
    Centenar de la Ploma Avatar de ariant
    Fecha de ingreso
    20 nov, 11
    Mensajes
    596
    Yo tambe conteste desde el meu valenciá de a peu mentres responen els antesos.

    Crec que lo correcte es Paller. "palliça" s'aplica a atres coses.

    Eixa segon paraula, "siquiera", mos dona prou problemas. "tansevol" no la utiliza casi ningu, crec yo, pero crec que quedaría molt correcta. En canvit he sentit moltes voltes "cualsevol" o "qualsevol" y en el parlar coloquial "consevol" y en coloquial...coloquial molts mos hem tret lo de "sisquera" un "arreglo" de la paraula castellana.

    Pera mi tambe queda millor en plural "haurien"

    Sobre tot m'interesa la parura "siquiera". A vore si contesten els enterats y aixina ixim de dubtes.
    POPEPO Le gusta esto.

  6. #6
    Centenar de la Ploma
    Fecha de ingreso
    17 jul, 08
    Mensajes
    917
    La palliça es com una andana dalt en la terrasa del fondo de raere de els corralets de les cases tipiques valencianes de poble ahon posaben la palla.

    Ni siquiera se pot traduir digent Ni chiripa, per lo manco en la meua zona!!

    Espere que vos siga d'utilitat hi han moltes expresions valencianes de moltes zones en perill d'extincio per falta d'us i ser van perdent poc a poc i mes ara en totes les expresions acatalanaes que mos an dut pa anikilarnos l'identitat..
    POPEPO Le gusta esto.

  7. #7
    Fiscal de lo Regne Avatar de Fayostros
    Fecha de ingreso
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    Pajar es paller, en cambit pallís ve de la conjuncio entre dos paraules.

    PALLA i LLIÇ

    Palla llisa, es per aixo que la base interior de les barraques i moltes cases de fa un anys es diu pallis, perque es una superficie lliça feta de palla, de ahí lo de pallís.

    Cuant es de canya es diu canyís, que tame ve de canya i de lliç.

    En cuant a lo de tansiquiera, tamé es composta.

    Tan - si - quiera/e


    En valencià la traducció exacta tal cual seria...

    Tant - si - vol (Evidentment la T se pert per comoditaat lexica i la segon part unida quedant tansevol)

    La i de "SI" en algunes regions s'utilisa la I i en atres a E. Sorprenentment la mes llogica seria la de...

    tansivol ... com si no vol...

    Encara que tame podria vindre de dos significats diferents

    tansivol tant - si - vol o tant - se - vol, com en tanto si quiere o tanto se quiere

    (Depén de quina vinga inicialment s'utilisa la i o la e)


    Atra cosa es que se puga dir d'atres maneres i en atres construccions.

    Un abraç POPEPO.
    POPEPO Le gusta esto.

    "Los fascistas del futuro, se llamarán a sí mismos antifascistas."
    Winston Churchill

  8. #8
    Coronel de lo Regne Avatar de Lobivalentian
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    A vore,que s'aclarixquen estos punts;
    -Mosatros usem la mosárap -pallera pero el -paller sería al descubert,sense trespol que'l cubrixca.Lo de "palliça" es minoritaria,está més present de Castelló cap amunt.
    -El -sixquera es préstam castellá,s'utilisa a modo igual que -tan sols.
    "una paraula sixquera" (Baldoví: La tertulia de Colau,1867,p.15)
    -Es -hauríen,en plural.

    P.D: Lo de "dubte" en -b es arcaísme,impost hui per els catalibans.Sugerixc ésta,en velar;
    "eixir de ducte" (Batiste Gómez: Coloqui entre Goriet y la Chora, c. 1850)
    Última edición por Lobivalentian; 25/09/2013 a las 17:16
    POPEPO, adlerta y a DonChusep Les gusta esto.

  9. #9
    Varó de lo Regne
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    "sixquera" opera en negatiu per si a soles, encara que se reforcé (com es Castellá) en "ni" "tan" o les dos juntes "Ni sixquera" "tan sixquera" "ni tan sixquera".

    La paraula pallisa (pajar) ha segut d'us general en casi tot el Reyne. (pot ser que molt al sur no, pero está documentá en mOnover per eixemple). Era com be ha dit Romaguera una part de la casa. Hasda cert punt es sinónima de paller (ya que este seria una construccio apart , mes que una part de la casa. Penseu que cada familia s'apanyava el seu abast.
    Com diu volderk. Ni han atres opcions. NO vos encaboteu en les traduccions lliterals "paraula a paraula".

    Per ultim. Fugir de paraules per que siguen (presuntament) castellanismes, es CAURE EN LA TRAMPA PANCATALANISTA
    POPEPO, Lobivalentian y a DonChusep Les gusta esto.
    ¡GERMANS DE BREGA!

    FRONT A L'IMPERIALISME CATALÁ

    JOVENS LLIURES VALENCIANS

    RESISTENCIA VALENCIANA

    UNIXTE A MOSATROS

  10. #10
    Aspirant a Centenar Avatar de DonChusep
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    Buscant en el DHIVAM mos trobem en:

    sixquera –la veu valenciana sixquera
    apareix a principis del XVIII com a
    sisquera; pot ser adv., conj. adversativa
    o distributiva: “els ulls no pot apegar, /
    ni sisquera una hora” (Ros: Coloqui
    pera riure... estes Carnistoltes, 1733)
    sixquera –cat. tan sols: “no ha tocat
    una sixquera en lo clau, y totes en...” (El
    Mole, 1837, p.14)

    pallisa –cast. pajar: “pallisa”, (Ferrer,
    St. Vicent: Sermons, c. 1400)

    paller: “engulliria un paller” (Mulet,
    F.: Ms. Poesies a Maciana, c. 1640, v.
    140)

    pallisa “paller, pallisa: pajar” (Sanelo:
    Dicc. 1805)

    Cita Iniciado por Lobivalentian
    P.D: Lo de "dubte" en -b es arcaísme,impost hui per els catalibans.Sugerixc ésta,en velar;
    "eixir de ducte" (Batiste Gómez: Coloqui entre Goriet y la Chora, c. 1850)
    Anyadixc aço:

    ducte “ductes” (Establiments Vila de
    Villafamés, 1630, f. 35)

    ducte “sens ducte” (Bib. Loaces
    d’Oriola, Ms. Mulet: A Maciana, c.
    1640, v. 591)
    ducte “ducte” (Establiments de
    Vinarós, 1647)

    ducte “sens ducte que vosté es frare...
    qui ho ducta” (BUV. Morlá: Ms. 666, c.
    1649)

    ducte “no ducte” (Mulet: Tractat del
    pet, c. 1650)
    POPEPO, Lobivalentian y a adlerta Les gusta esto.

  11. #11
    Senyor de lo Regne Avatar de POPEPO
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    Moltes gràcies germans.

    Per la nit vos dic lo que he pensat (millor dir, lo que m´haveu fet pensar) al respecte.

    ¡Quina riquea de llengua valenciana!

    ________________________________________
    71

  12. #12
    Senyor de lo Regne Avatar de POPEPO
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    Crec que per a la traducció que m´interessa, me quede en "paller". Ya que "palliça" és algo més específic (construcció apart o inclòsa en lo paller).

    Respecte a lo que comenteu de "sixquera", yo no ho he sentit dir per ací. De moment preferixc traduirlo com "ni tan sols", pero tampoc m´agrà del tot.
    M´interessa prou aclarir esta traducció en especial. ¡Segur que entre tots lo fem! ¿Haveu sentit dir "sixquera"? Si és aixina, ¿a on?

    La tercera que vos he plantejat, està clara: plural "haurien".

    Un fort abràç.

    _____________________________________________
    71

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